Issue Number 9 - Published July 26, 2009
Tip.It War Rankings Quick Info
Free To Play:
In the Clan Board
Spotlight On: Divine Kings
I know you weren't part of the original DK, but what do you know about how it was founded?
The old DK was originally founded by Gotenks 2322, and was originally called Kow: King of Wild, which I pked with a few times.This had taken place in around 05-06, and Kow mainly consisted of Hill Giant and low level PKing.
You used to be leader of ZH (Zero honor) which was basically hailed as a "new NI". Do you feel it fits that description?
Pretty much, it had multiple ex NI members, and I myself was apart of NI.
I want to know about your merge with DK. I know there had been some drama between ZH and DK members, so how exactly did you agree to merge? And why?
Well ZH and DK were originally on good terms, but after some DK officials left for ZH, the drama stirred up, making us enemies. As we know, a new alliance called IA had formed; which had sometimes forced us to work together, reforming our alliance. So basically we merged because of the threat of IA. We also got closer when larger clans attempted to hunt us, so both ZH and DK teamed up multiple times to clear top clans. Since we were teaming anyway, a merge made sense. Also in terms of strictly pking ZH members pked with DK, and DK members pked with ZH.
What are your feelings about IA? I know obviously there has been a lot of drama, as they were created pretty much for the sole purpose of stopping you guys from crashing. Do you think they will succeed? Or have they succeeded at all?
They seem a bit desperate and I find it ironic that they were created to 'defend honour' but at the same time do 'no honour' acts, such as crashing our fights, war practices, even attempts at spamming/hacking our TS. Maybe a few times they have succeeded from us crashing a fight, but it really didn't make a difference for us, as we were feasting on rune from their members. IA isn't really a threat, just more of a small nuisance at times.
Now DK/ZH has always had a good friendship with VR (Violent Resolution). How did that come about? And why is it advantageous?
That's correct. Since I was ex VR, I had respected them and their philosophies on how RS should be played. Though they aren't necessarily considered 'NH', I still admire their style in PKing, and both clans have similar enemies. I suppose that is why we got closer, similar to how DF teamed with AG, although AG were NH.
So you wouldn't consider VR "NH"? Or at least not the extent DK is?
Not at all, if VR was truly "No Honor', the destruction and damage would be heavy. I've seen many claims from people like Lego, the leader of DF, accusing VR of being No Honour and using that as an advantage by asking for IA to help clear VR, because DF cannot take down VR themselves.
So tell me about your personal clan history. Were you ever in an honour clan? What made you decide to be NH?
I've been in numerous clans, my first few clans had been 'honour'. My first clan was Dragonwood, and I enjoyed it, but I wanted to PK with my own set of rules, so I tried out NI. And without a doubt, was one of my best decisions. I definitely enjoyed being in NI, it had lots of freedom.
What about gear requirements? Does DK have any? And what about behaviour, such as flaming on public forums etc.
Yes, and I'll tell you right now, our gear requirements are much higher than IA's. Most of our members bring rune, and even when we tell them they can welfare because we are fighting IA, a lot of them still end up bringing rune. As for flaming, we normally tend to allow our members freedom of expressing their opinion, but when we do need them to stop, we will make sure to enforce it and kick anyone if necessary.
What made DK decide to be NH? They have a history of trying different things.
Like you said, we like to try different things. We have a philosophy that the wilderness rules shouldn't be made by someone else, but rather we should have the ability to choose our own set of rules. The wilderness wasn't made so we'd stop killing someone because they said to stop.
Obviously, DK stands out in the clan world and is looked down upon by many. Do you see regular disadvantages to being in a NH clan, or do you enjoy every minute?
Both. There are some disadvantages: clans will tend to team up on us, hack us, crash us, and do anything, yet get away with it and call themselves 'honour'. At the same time, we don't give a crap what they think about us or their threats, we play the game so WE, DK can enjoy it, we do not play for the enjoyment of others.
What do you consider to be the most important thing DK has achieved?
Countless achievements, but of course we don't post them all on RSC or public areas as clans will end up looking for the slightest reason to flame us. But anyways, we've had numerous achievements, taking on top clans, BEATING top clans, fighting multiple clans at once, and WINNING, and even making people so damn pissed that they are forced to make an alliance to have an attempt at stopping us.
I'm sure you guys have some legitimate wars from time to time. How does it make you feel if and when your wars get crashed? When your fight gets ruined, does it annoy you? Or do you just take it in stride?
Yes we have fights with many clans. If they get crashed we don't let other clans take advantage of us, so we will hit them twice as hard. IA has been attempting to crash ALL our events lately, though now more and more clans have realized this about IA. Many clans have withdrawn from the IA, hence why IA's opts have decreased significantly. It doesn't annoy us too much, as we know we will make sure they regret it in the future.
Thanks for the interview.
Interview questions answered by Bloodarrow42, Divine Kings Co-leader.
From Clan Leader to forum Admin
I've been involved in clans in some way or another my entire RuneScape career. I had the privilege of a leadership role in two of them and I believe this role greatly affected and prepared me to admin this website. Clans often get little respect in game from non-clanners. It's like they don't understand clanners, they just see them as money hungry killing barbarians, but when it comes to clan leaders, it's often so far from the truth it's funny. A good leader has to deal with staffing, inactivity, and drama.
Staffing here is a bit like staffing for a clan on a broader scale. I think clans have impacted how I look for mods - I look for leaders - people who I think stand a cut above the others and who can shine in moments where they may the only moderator on. The clan world made me see leaders as strong individuals and I carry this over here as well.
Inactivity can be brutal to a clan and it can be brutal to a staff team as well. I still remember the first inactive I ever kicked: an old friend of mine from classic. It was one of the toughest things I have ever done. But after that first time, it got easier and it's rarely been a problem since. I think this is something that clan leaders can do - that people with non clan background greatly struggle with.
Quality admins would make quality clan leaders in the clan world I believe, and I believe quality clan leaders make quality moderators/admins. Leadership is something that cannot be taught - you either have it or you don't. Ironically some of my most respected clan leaders on my personal all time list have never led a fansite or even been a staff member. Another similarity is that staff work and leading a clan are both full time jobs. In my entire RuneScape career (July 01- Present) I have only seen a select few do both roles.
I think most clan people know what hard work goes in to day to day operations, but I don't think the non clan ones do. So if you read this, take it from an admin and clan leader: Clan leaders deserve the utmost respect. They bust their asses to provide a quality environment and experience for their members.
Are we causing the clan world to die?
I remember there was a day when I could name the top 40 clans easily, but now I'd struggle naming the top 20, and prefer naming the top 10 or top 15. The situation is hardly at a stand still or getting better; clans are dying at an incredible rate (Compared to how they used to) and new ones are not being re-made. Old clans are being used to supplement and help improve growth of the bigger clans that are slowly losing members. They need these dead clans to ensure that they, if not grow, at least don't begin to slump. As to why, I'm unsure. It's possibly because they're trying to aim it at a higher age group who is uninterested? Or maybe because the younger players (aged 13-17) are turning to more interesting prospects such as Xbox Live etc. and are not considering RuneScape. This may be why Jagex is releasing MechScape, and this is why I can't for the life of me think why they are continuing to run RuneScape once MechScape is up, because I personally believe this will halve the amount of new players to the game. As for what the future has in store for us, I can only speculate. Could it be that we are left with a handful of die hard clans? Maybe they'll make RuneScape less about profit (as the new CEO seems to be keen on doing) and more about fun. Maybe they'll end up taking away P2P and leaving it with a few worlds for clanning. These seem unbelievable and will probably never come to fruition.
An example of this is in a popular “Name the top x clans thread.”
Here is a post dated from 2005:
Here is a post from the same topic, dated 2009-07-24:
What would be the one main reason for clan world dying out?
Back then, I would walk around and maybe 3 or 5 people (again random estimate) with 90+ cmb would be in a clan. Secondly, depending on my combat level, I was asked maybe once or twice a week, if I was in a clan.
Now, when I walk around RS (rarely I’ll admit :P), the clan world is so small that I hardly ever see a person that is in a clan and when I do, I usually recognise the person's name, and roughly know what clan they're in (most of you probably have the same feeling).
And of course, there is very little clan recruitment in RuneScape. People just don't do it as much.
So to the point: Why are we the reason that the clan world is dying? Simple, most of us here have been recruited from RuneScape into the clan world, and most of us here, at some point have probably attempted to recruit somebody from RuneScape... into the clan world.
Now, clans only recruit people who are experienced, and generally don't ever walk about, looking for people, asking them if they want to join a clan, and bring them from RuneScape, into RSC/SalsCD/Tipit Clan world.
Notice: There are few junior clans, and any new (successful) clans, are already build on experienced people/people unretiring. Also, there are far more people retiring than joining the clan world. Why? Because most of us have started playing when we were 12-15, and now most of us are 18+, and most us have/will have, jobs/children/uni/life. Rarely do 12-15 year olds join top clans now (how many non-broken voices do you hear on your TeamSpeak/Ventrilo? Or the opposite if you are in a smaller clan)
In an Epic Conclusion: We Recruited the clan world, made it, played in it, and now... we're getting smaller VERY fast, crashing and burning, unless we turn things around very soon.
Many clans, particularly ones near the top of the ranking ladder, like to fight in pvp. Many reasons are given, such as excitement, a better test of dedication, and tradition (just like the old wilderness). However, fighting in a pk run-in style in a pvp world causes many complications. This article will focus on one main theme: Who actually won?
There are two types of pk run-ins: Capped, and uncapped. In a capped fight, amongst the agreed upon rules is a time limit. The clans will set boundaries, styles, RuneHead restrictions, but they will also set a time limit. This time limit can be anything, although in general it doesn't exceed 5 hours. A clan "wins" a capped fight by checking their options at the end; whoever has more when the cap is up wins the fight. Simple, right? Not quite.
In an uncapped fight, the theory is fairly similar to the capped fight. The rules are set up like any other war, except without a time limit. The objective of the uncapped fight is to make the other clan "end" (basically to give up). If clan A and clan B fight for 10 hours, and clan A decides they have finally had enough and leave the battlefield, clan B is pronounced victorious. Now, ideally this would simply be a test of dedication: Who has the more dedicated members who are willing to stay up late? However, it gets a little more complicated.
Domination is a phenomenon commonly claimed by the losing clan in both capped and uncapped fights. Basically the claim in uncapped fights is this: "We were doing much better than them in every way but they just decided to keep returning with very few members to try to outlast us".
Quite often, it is a valid claim. Many clans are famous for "outlasting"; continuing to pointlessly return while they are being severely beaten in every aspect of the fight. Eventually they may get the win because the other clan just doesn't want to stick around. Outlasting is generally looked down upon by the clan community, and for good reason. Many people make the point that it doesn't show any warring prowess at all, which is very true. If a clan gets to the point in a pkri when they are trying to outlast, then they have clearly been beaten already.
In capped fights, a different claim exists. Many times a clan will tell their members to be at the fight for the starting and ending. Basically clan A will start with 100 members, and 10 minutes into the fight 30 members will log off. Clan B will have 80 members and beat clan A quite soundly until the last 10 minutes of the cap, when the 30 members who logged off log back in. Technically, clan A wins, because they end with 100 members despite having only 70 members for the majority of the fight.
So what does this mean? Clans complain about cwa being boring, but pvp has its flaws as well. Until clans decide to change the way they fight or Jagex gives them another way, these problems will still be present. Ultimately, outlasting is a tactic that takes advantages of the flaws in the system. Clans realize it when they accept pk run-ins and will have to adapt to it as a strategy.
As predicted by most of us, Jagex has implemented some changes to prevent the rampant use of 26k-ing, also known as tricking, in the PvP and BH worlds. There have been plenty of speculations about what these changes would be: Reducing number or changing the values of the drops, removing the abilities to use certain spells and weapons/ammo, limiting the hot zones, decreasing the pile jumping time, increasing the 10 second timer, reduction of brawler gloves drops or bonuses and many more. Suggestions galore were posted both on RSOF and on fansites, and people were expected a nerf sooner rather than later. Okay, they expected pretty much everything but what they got:
Mod Benny wrote:
The reactions were not exactly positive, as this seemed to affect the "real" pkers more than the 26k-ers (now known as 76k-ers, that's a successful change).
So now you're bound to lose your Rune sets, and melee is all of a sudden an instant loser when it comes to a continuous fighting style, due to its much higher cost of armour/weapons. One-itemers were gone, but at what cost?
A hidden update was also implemented, which greatly effected some players economically, mostly those who were planning to 26k. Broad Arrows, a product from a popular and fast Fletching method, now have value of 0 Gp instead of 90. This means that they can't be used as a risk gaining factor anymore, and are practically worthless – unless you plan to range a LOT. Some players were going for 50, 100 and even 200M Fletch exp and were hoping to gain some Brawlers and profit back from the arrows with 26k-ing. This is no longer possible, and some have lost 100's of millions on this.
Monster hunters and other high leveled players who made money from God Wars or Tormented Demons could see the short and long term effect of this, as not many would risk Godswords, Dragon Claws or other high level armour and weapons if they were instantly skulled and had no means of protecting or keeping any items. As soon as this update was known, a lot of players panic sold their D Claws & Godswords - many losing Gp on it. As usual, panic never pays...Less than 48 hours later, another ”adjustment” was made:
Mod Benny wrote:
Panic at the GE, and prices on everything right back up again. This is only on Bounty Hunter worlds, though, so Brawler Gloves have a limited use - this means that those who used Brawlers while getting EP can only use some of them (or have to use less effective methods). The +1 Item worlds are also a lot more populated, so the risk of getting killed is bigger. Some will argue that this is a free Protect Item prayer for the ”real” pkers, but after almost two weeks it seems that the +1 Items worlds are popular.
Whether this is because the usually non pking players prefer to keep a little, or because the pkers just prefer this because it's more similar to the better old days, is hard to say. With all the changes the Wilderness and PvP have gone through, one thing seem clear: Jagex wants clans to use the CWA and players to do DM's in the duel arena. It seems that the updates aimed to strike down on the ”outsiders”, in reality once again hit the pkers and the clans that were the ones using the Wilderness in the first place.
The first update was not received very well, and (as usual) players were pouring their hearts out in the RSOF Rants forums and threats about quitting were numerous. At first glance it looked like a hasty and not thought-through update, and the second update looked like a fix to make everyone happy. Though I can't help but thinking if there was more planning behind it than it seems, and that the good old ”compared to chopped liver” trick was used: We were given something crappy at first, so that the improved version would be good enough. In other words, they had both the PvP and Bounty Hunter worlds planned and prepared from the start, but released them a few days apart – knowing that complaints would happen no matter what they did. By giving us the worst one first, we'd be satisfied with the better option, and the whining would die out.
Players are still tricking, just with a little less profit and a little more risk. The amount of people bolting in the hot zone next to the Grand Exchange for EP is not exactly reduced, so I expect we will see more adjustments from Jagex in the future.
I am not saying that this update was all bad, but let's just hope that they take the pkers and regular PvP users into consideration before making the next update, and maybe make use of the clan leader forum that they have. After all such an important communication channel should be used when it comes to updates directly affecting the clan members, who after all frequent the PvP worlds the most.
Next issue we will try to get some reactions and another interview about honour and NH, and our new authors will be working as hard as they did to get this issue out. (Special thanks to our new Chronicle Author y_guy_4_life, who made sure that we had enough articles this month, despite a busy summer for some of us, editor included.) One or two more authors will be announced, and maybe Jagex will give us more PvP updates to write about?
Will you be going to RuneFest in September?
Help keep Tip.It alive, donate a bit to our site:
© 1999 - 2017 RuneScape Tips, all rights reserved. RuneScape® and Jagex® are trademarks of Jagex Ltd © 2000 - 2017 Andrew Gower.