Thanks for letting me interview you, Timlahaye. Can you tell us a bit about Divination's history?
It started in March 2008, and it was founded by Jeff_Damaori. Ever since then it has been growing a lot I guess. It started out as just a Nz/Aussie clan but then a lot of USA members joined. The leaders are Timlahaye, Helo2923, Adam_Hidius, Kinggeorgeiv, Jaketylert, & Odin_Flux - he used to be Jeff_Damaori so yea... At the moment we have 92 normal members with a 2,290 skill total average, in addition to 111 junior members. Both are Divination still.
What has made Div grow so fast, and become one of the top skilling clans in RS?
The community. Everyone gets along, everyone knows eachother, and we recruit a lot to get more members. We are also very competitive I guess.
Mainly recruiting on sites or by hearsay?
Just 1 by 1 by talking to people.
For those not familiar with the concept, can you please explain a little about what a skilling clan has to offer?
Fun times in IRC, competitions, events, forums, etc. Example of events can be Tears of Guthix events, pyramid plunder, monster hunting events, social events, etc
What skills are the most popular ones in Divination?
You do a lot of skilling competitions, most will recognise your name from the Jagex Cup. Congratulations on your victory! What did you think of the skilling contest concept they presented, and the Jagex Cup in general?
Ooo thanks haha. Umm tbh I didn't really care for it, I didn't like the way it was set up, we are better at like 48 hour wars not xp in a hour.. But it was ok I guess, keeps our record on a new lose streak in wars. ;p
What effects has your success in the Jagex Cup had on your clan?
Umm not really that much, we are still the same lol. We had a lot more people notice us though. Some new members, too.
Will you participate next time, and if so; are there any changes you would suggest?
Make it more based on like a certain amount of xp in 48 hours or something, like whoever gets the most would be cool. We might night time, unsure.
How is a normal skilling competition for you?
2-5 days, whoever gets the most xp during that time wins. Well like agility tickets and stuff is off limit but otherwise you can use all legal methods lol.
Many warring and pking clans look down on skilling clans, and don't view them as serious business. Why do you think skilling clans have gotten this reputation?
Umm Idk really. I guess because they don't pk and they waste their time doing stuff pkers don't want to do.
In which ways do you think skilling clans and warring clans are similar, and on which points are they different?
Similiar because they have events and stuff but different because skilling clans are skill based while waring are pk based. I guess for activity skilling clans want you go to in competitions and waring clans in wars. Requirements in skilling clan are based on total level and not combat level.
What do you think of the latest PVP update, that changed some of the previous Slayer drops into statuettes, icons and such? Do your members PVP much to get Brawler gloves, profit or just some excitement?
We like it a lot. Lots of us do pvp. :o Those are my brawlers:
Thank you very much for the interview, which I will end with a hypothetical question: Divination members have an impressive combat average. What do you think your chances would be if you joined the Jagex Combat Cup?
On a gloomy afternoon, I decided that I wanted to PK (Player-Kill), but on June 16, 2009, Bounty Hunter changed. I read the updated in the RuneScape announcements; little did I know the drop system was different. Exclusive drops like the Dragonfire Shield, Abyssal Whips, and much more had been eliminated from the Bounty Hunter drop system. Although, I supported to take out the exclusive drops, I missed the getting the big drops.
These ‘Bounty Hounter’ drops allow the Exclusive Drops to better maintain their value. Sadly the newer Bounty Hunter drops happen quite often, with 100% EP you can easily get 2 million Gp.
In a hot spot, you get about 25% EP per 30 minutes. To get maxed EP you need to achieve 2 hours in a hot spot (while risking 75k). My average for EP drops is about 2 million gp per 100%. 1 Million Per Hour, that’s pretty good I say.
Runecrafting nature runes at 91 Runecrafting makes about 1 Million gp Per Hour (that’s if you are quick).
Runecrafting Natures at 91 RC: 1 million/hour
*Tricking is a way to make money without actual pking (player killing). To Trick or 26ker, you need a partner to kill you X amount of times, and then you kill your partner X amount of times.
Well which is better Double Natures or Tricking? Double natures require 91 runecrafting and you must pay attention to achieve 1million per Hour. Unlike Runecrafting, Tricking only restricts 20 combat or lower, this allows a broader size of runescapians to Trick. Tricking doesn’t take much skill, nor have you to pay much attention.
Some Slayers were depressed from having their rare drops dropped in PVP/BH worlds. Luckily for those elite slayers, Jagex has deleted the exclusive slayer drops from the drop system. The slayer drops will now shrink, causing originally low prices for abyssal whips, dragonfire shields, and others to spike. Slayers will now profit more with the update. Drops like Whips, and Visages have increased in market and street value.
26kers/Trickers Reap the Profits
This update favored 26kers/Trickers (people who kill another person with 26k, willingly). You consistently reap profits, the RISK VS REWARD IS unbalanced. You can stand in a hot spot for 2 hours and achieve 1 million easily. Just sitting there has little risk. Yes you can get killed. People who pk naturally, realize that pk isn’t as profitable. The death rate of a tricker/26ker is much lower then an average pker under most circumstances. Trickers also gain more profit, because they tend to stay in a hot spot zone for longer durations then an average pker. Staying in hot spots leads to more EP which finalizes into more drops. An average PKer risks more money then a tricker. All in all, PKers needs to be better rewarded or trickers need to be nerfed.
Loss of Excitement
Now I wonder: will everything be fixed with these new PVP/BH updates? One thing is truly lost: the drops you receive aren’t like they used to be. Instead of receiving abyssal whips that you killed for, you now own unsatisfying artifacts. You used to be able to PK, and receive what your opponent was wearing and holding. Nowadays, you get random artifacts. At least, Jagex should’ve made the drops combat related or more pk related. Sometimes, it feels like we are plundering for artifacts rather then pking for loot.
Bounty Hunter/PVP Feedback
I asked a handful of selected people what they thought about the update.
I think it’s quite amazing! The drop rate has improved greatly!
Epiphany Member/Tipit Crewbie
I like the idea of artifacts, mithril dragons are no longer a waste.
Overpowered, but good
I like the update..the statues get dropped really often.
Echo of Silence Member
Better drops per kills, but no hoping for super rare drops anymore like dfs and full helm. Its the same stuff as before: the lucky people get all the drops and unlucky people get [cabbage]. Overall if you're lucky you will make more per kill than before. Overall it’s better.
Moriquendi Events and Admission Team
With each individual adjustment they make to the system, they make it harder to RWT. But at what cost? The more drops set asket the Risk vs Reward ratio, the worse off the economy is. As someone who pks seldom, I don't think it's fair.
Divine Kings Leader
This update really help's pk'ers a lot, firstly in that now you actually have to pk the god items such as dfs and godswords, where as before people were getting dfs from 26k's which takes no skill at all. To get good drops you have to pk em, not just kill your friend. Also as they stated in the update, because people were getting them from 26k's the price of them were dropping, take dragon full helm for example, it went from 50m-10m because of people.
The drop values didnt change. Just the drops. Now instead of farming DFS's, DFH's, and whips from 25king and doing nothing at all you can just farm untradeable items which can be traded to npcs for straight money from doing nothing at all, so really its no different and acutally better for you becasue now you don't even have to deal with price drops, ext. Then if your really want a DFS you can just go buy one with the money you farmed from tricking. Also better for people who do slayer, ext and acutally do stuff for there drops becasue now prices of these items won't crash so much from people 25king them all the time.
Ex-TDM Senior Member
In my opinion, PKing had all it's items stripped away with this update. Any item related to slayer, minigames, or bosses, got removed, as well as a great way to get junk (poisoned arrows). This also increases the demand, since there is less supply. This makes items more expensive, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dark Bows go back to 1.5m, Whips 2m, and warrior rings regain 200k.
Overall, The BH/PVP update helped to increase the prices of exclusive items, but flooded the economy with a shocking amount of money. The update disallowed any BIG drops, with the highest one landing about 7 million (Vesta’s Long sword). I hate to admit it, but the update is too good. Even though it lacks the good BIG drop (like DFS) it is very consistent. It drops statuettes (and others), which land approximately 300k-5million. So as an avid tricker, I would take advantage of the new update while you can.
RuneScape.com - Providing the Grand Exchange Graphs
Lady Ninane - Proving Feedback and Editing
Squigtime/Stilly1/Pitac83/Haoshu/Crusha King2/Warriormonkx/Msn_Sazabi - Providing their opinions about the PVP/BH Update
Tripsis - My Professional Editor
Quite a lot of the time, when asked 'what makes a clan?' most people will offer the same answer: its members. The idea of what clan members are and if the ‘quality’ of clan members is changing has been touched upon before (http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=794563), but what actually makes a member? Is there such a thing as a 'good' member? Are some skills more important than others?
First off, let’s consider whether clan members should be questers or not. There are currently 154 quests in RuneScape (not including Learning the Ropes). Now quests vary in time, from the extremely short (Cook's Assistant) to the extremely long (While Guthix Sleeps). If, for the sake of argument, quests average out at around an hour each (perhaps a little conservative, but not inconceivable with guides), then that’s 154 hours of game time spent in total to provide a conservative estimate. Given that it is quite common to get 60K xp per hour in most combat skills, that totals to an impressive 9.24 million xp, or almost level 96. On the face of it, this seems more useful than a series of fairly nominal quest rewards and normally skill-based level requirements, but there is more to this than meets the eye. A purely xp-based player will have no access to ancient or lunar magicks. Similarly, they maybe not be able to participate in Trouble Brewing events or not be able to use even simple basics such as dragon daggers. Whilst this is an extreme example, it still illustrates an important point: balance is needed.
This need for balance can be seen elsewhere. Take a whole clan. To operate effectively it needs a balance of skills, both in and often outside of the game itself. Some people need to be able to fight,] as most clans - even skilling ones - will participate in wars at some point. You also need players who understand the game's mechanics: Someone who can help other clan members out in the most efficient training methods, the hidden spots for monsters or more generally wider RuneScape. Furthermore, clans need members who may not be great in-game, but have other skills outside. There are always memberlists to update, websites to maintain (and often even pay for!), and forums to moderate. Clans need these behind-the-scenes operators in order to smoothly run and maintain a sense of continuation for the clan, and often provide the clan with its own 'space'. This is an important part of establishing a clan's identity - be it forum, site, IRC or all of them - as clans need an online base to operate from, something only made possible by the unseen technical guys.
But perhaps the most important kind of clan member, the ‘quality’ at the heart of the clan, is the normal, everyday player. They may not be a brilliant tank or PK'er, they may not know much about how the intricacies of the game work, but they make the clan what it is - they make it a community of friends all working together with similar aims. It’s the everyday normal members that are most important, making up the core of the clan, and there is one defining thing about this core which is common across all clans: The core is loyal.
A clan is built around this loyal core. I’m not saying that people won’t come and go at some point from this core, of course they will and that’s fine, but these members are almost always dependable, you know they’re on hand to support the clan. Without a core of strong, regular members, you’ll never gain any momentum, let alone fame. So if your considering the quality of your members, don’t consider them based on skills or knowledge alone, consider two things: How do they fit into the wider picture of the clan - do they help make it well-rounded? And could you call on them in a tight spot and know they’d come and help?
How and when was SE founded?(how did you pick the name?)
Shadow Elves.. a clan founded by Hawkhunter07 and Nightrider7 back in July 14, 2004. Roughly 5 years ago, Night and Hawk being the active PKers they were, decided to open a clan and take the PKing up to another level.. and by another level I mean being able to stroll into the deeper wilderness without getting wiped.
But on a more serious note, they decided to bring all of their friends together by creating the clan - and that's what gave SE a good base to start on.
Warring seems to be your main focus. What else do you do?
While PvP related activities are an important aspect of our clan, our main focus is the preservation and improvement of our community, which we've worked hard to build up over the years. We continue hosting inner-clan fun events. On average we host two to three official non-PvP related events weekly, ranging from monster hunting to Pyramid Plunder.
Why does your clan prefer pvp over cwa?
PVP outweighs CWA when it comes to fun, and we as a clan all know that.
You can't compare the rush that you experience in PVP worlds to the one in Clan War arena: Knowing that out there anything could happen at any time, knowing that you could be running into your rival, or maybe a smaller clan, or perhaps a big clan that can clear you.
Another factor is the map area itself, it's very compatible for clans and has been for many years. CWA doesn't offer it.
Though keep in mind that we still use CWA, as do many clans around us when it comes to wars mostly, due to there being no interference by people outside of the war - thus giving a more accurate result.
When did you decide to strive for organizational excellence and what affected that decision?
It's a natural process which leads back to the foundations on which the clan is built, being the community aspect. We feel that in order to maintain stability, a clan needs to offer more than a prospect of victory. Every clan is bound to go through rough times and that's when friendship between the members should be able to pull the clan through. Maintaining a healthy balance means growth should happen at a slow, though steady pace, so we don’t simply take in everyone that applies to us. Over time it has enabled people to get to know each other inside out, allowing us to work as one, which improves our organization as a whole. A clan built on quantity may rise to power faster, but it’s also less coherent. A clan that values quality above anything will never rise or fall extremely, but slowly rise.
What was your longest pkri?
Our longest PK run in was the Shadow Elves versus Damage Incorporated fight, that occurred on January 10, 2009 and lasted 10.5 hours. It was a memorable PKRI for us, not only because it was our longest fight but also because we stood strong for all of it, and it showed by ending with 60+ people. The intensity was great and our morale was high, we all promised to give our best that day and so we did.. bringing the victory home.
What is your fondest memory from your time in SE?
Very tough question.. I have countless memories in this clan. But if I had to pick one then it'd be our streak of 32 straight war wins that we achieved about 2 years ago. Our love for wars was incomparable and a day didn't pass without having one.
We became stronger every day, and now I'd say that we're one of the top warring clans when it comes to organization, but there's always room for improvement. Perfection can't be achieved, but we can always try to get as close to it as we can.
What was the lowest SE ever went?
We've always kept stable, but the lowest state we've been at was probably during the CWA era when we were at about 70 members. This is pretty much the reason why we've always preferred growing slowly and steadily, valuing community above everything, and it's the reason why we've never fallen enough to actually call it a 'slump'.
What are your predictions for the top 5 over the summer? Do you see SE there?
Depends. If the top 5 is going to be all about weekly long fights then probably not. Regardless of ranks, we're up for one hell of a summer. Watch out!
Do you feel Jagex provides adequate support for clans? What would you like to see them do to improve?
The new approach Jagex has taken ever since Mark Gerhard took over as CEO has definitely improved interaction between Jagex and its customers, whether they be clan related or not. Organizing the Jagex Cup was a first step, hopefully this positive trend will continue in the future. There’s always room for improvement though, I personally wouldn’t mind a bit more personal interaction between officials of clans and Jagex Moderators. Perhaps leaders of well-established clans could or should have a way to contact Jagex Moderators in private with concerns, requests or suggestions. I’d think it’d be fairly manageable if they’d just require clans to meet certain requirements in order to avoid abuse of such system. After all, leaders of clans of all kinds are representatives of a group of people, it would be a great way for people in clans to be listened to by Jagex in a direct manner.
Anything else you wish to add? Including pictures, if you would like...
In SE we tend to have our famous pizza parties over in Edgeville after we win, so here's the pizza party we had after we beat DI in the PKRI I mentioned earlier:
And here's an interesting picture of Mod Mat K watching our fight against The Rising..
After quite a short fight that we won, we decided to simply walk around the wilderness with our 90-man turnout, hoping for another fight..
Thanks for the interview.
Interview questions answered by Denat555 and Sarrakas
This month's clan obituary does not exactly scream news for those who have been following the discussions in our Clan Discussion forum, as these news ticked in early in June. However, the reason behind the closing does give food for the thoughts for clan leaders, and should be read by those who care about maintaining their clan. Of course, Forgotten Templars also deserves its place in written clan history.
Finish Ed - Now ex FT leader wrote:
Perhaps this may be a shock, or it can be predictable. As many of you have seen, I have not been around as of late at all. I have been gone on 4 days period and not come on whatsoever, not even for a second. I didn't announce that I retired, but I think that news spread. I didn't get much time to really get on to say anything. Throughout my time in FT, I have always been able to stay active because when someone would ask me to do something, I would say that I can't. And now that I have retired, all the times I have said no, I can't do this, no I can't do that, I can now say, yes I can come. This is why I am no longer around.
About a month and a half ago, I started realizing that I really don't give a crap anymore. It got worse when we started to get better, and I still didn't really care. I could careless that we had a great win, or I wouldn't care that we had lost terribly. I felt guilty, but I kept it to myself and showed that I care. About 3 weeks ago, my prom weekend, I posted I'd be gone for 4 days. I came back after prom weekend and I got a lot of crap for being absent for so long. I really didn't give a crap. What disturbed me most was that when Ahmad left, I didn't care.. When Jake was inactive, It didn't bother me, when Mika and Derek (To be honest I struggled to remember his name because I've just not give a crap). I didn't care that our rank team was dematerialize due to inactivity, and overall I just could careless what happened to the clan. I knew I cannot stay leader this way, and I have always been a person that holds my responsibilities, I see being leader of FT as something that I have to do because I took the responsibility to do it, which is why I put up with crap for such a long time. But if I'm going to be a leader, I have to try my best or not do it at all. And I have no more gas in my tank. I can't do it anymore. I chose to retire. I was going to close FT after consulting a few people, but some people still wanted to keep it up.
At first there was a misunderstanding for me that Sarah said she was going to come back and help Karol get through this, so I let Karol handle the clan with Sarah. Then I was told I misunderstood her and that is far from what she had said. Things went downhill and we lost 7 members through a span of 3 days. Seeing that Karol's spirit is already broken, it is impossible for this clan to keep going. We have no ranks, no one who I have seen able to keep this clan running. I am closing it while we can still say that we close on our terms. Some people said to keep it up until summer ends, but at this point, I see no point in making people war when people don't actually want to war and just do it for FT.
I know it may sound selfish of me, but this is the decision I have made. Wuey says that it would be nice if everyone that plans on joining another clan got together and chose a clan to go to, personally, I will not be joining another clan ever again. I don't even think I will ever log into RS besides to sell all my stuff and cancel my membership.
Forgotten Templars started in February 2006 with an average barely over 100 cmb, and finishes with a F2P cmb average of 121+. Even with Summoning, that is a huge increase. They have grown to become a respected and well-known clan, and fought clans like BK, RT, TRI and TNC as late as May this year. On the forums and website it's obvious that the active members and ranks were hoping they could keep the clan together, but with lack of an enthusiastic leadership that is virtually impossible. 9 members were booted during May because of inactivity aswell, and that is a lot. I think we all can agree on that real life is more important than a game - although it can be easy to forget sometimes - but it's still scary to see that one or a few people can have so much influence on the destiny of one clan. Of course, noone knows if FT would have survived this slump anyway, but it would have been intersting to find out. At least for the members who are now lacking the clan they were loyal to for years.
For those who use IRC daily - either with a separate chat client or a RS client with additional features - most are familiar with RuneScript or other statbots. They can be used to check your own stats, or more importantly; someone else's. Very useful if you have someone as a BH target or if you are competing for a spot somewhere. You can also compare a stat or the overall stats, much like on the RS highscores, just much quicker. Another useful feature is to track your own progress in a skill, or in general, for a given time period. (Remember that you need to do a !stats before you track, because RuneScript gets its data manually.)
That's not all, though. Because this is where the more clan specific uses come into the picture: You can find out which clan a player is in and the player's combat stats in one command. If you want to find the link to a clan's memberlist (which also contains links to their website and more), you can find that, and you can compare memberlists to see if fights would seem fair.
Here is a list of useful commands that you can use if RuneScript is in the channel you're in. Remember that you can also PM RuneScript by double clicking it, opens a new window and it means your information doesn't drown in the text of the channel. You can of course switch the names with any other RS names or clan names.
!defname Laikrob = Sets my "RuneScript" name to Laikrob so I don't have to type my name after every command
!stats = Shows my level in all skills
!stats Gamerr = Shows Gamerr's levels in all skills
!compare overall Gamerr = Compares my overall level with Gamerr's, and tells how many exp and levels are needed to close the gap
!compare mining Gamerr = Compares my mining level to Gamerr's and tells how much exp and levels I need to catch up
!stats @exp = Shows my exp in all skill
!stats @next = Shows exp needed to next level in all skills not 99
!cmb Gamerr = Shows the same as above, just for Gamerr.
!cmb% = Shows how much of total exp is in combat skills
!att !herb !con etc. = Shows level, exp and exp and items needed for next level
!slayer Gamerr = Shows Gamerr's Slayer level and how much exp and monsters of each he needs for a level
!fish #80 = Shows how much exp and items needed to get to level 80 Fishing
!fish @trout = Shows how many trouts are needed for a fishing level (works with any skill and material/product)
!track = Shows how much exp and levels I've gained in each skill in a week
!track herb = Shows how much Herb exp and levels I have gained in a week, and when RuneScript expects me to level up
!track @4h = Tracks my exp and levels for 4 hours
!track @5wks = Tracks my exp and levels for 5 weeks
!alch rune mace = Shows high and low alch value for any item, in this case Rune Mace
!ge santa = Shows low, medium and high Grand Exchange price on Santa hats, and price fluctations for 1 day, 1 week and 1 month
!clan Red_Fat1 = Lists up ALL memberlists Red_Fat1 is on, but not cmb stats like the !cmb command
!ml df = Shows the memberlist for Divine Forces and includes the link to their forums. Many times you won't be lucky enough to be able to use the abbreviation, though, and you'll have to spell it out
!compareml downfall, mod = Compares the memberlists against eachother, so it's easy to see differences in members, average and range/magic
!world 18 = Shows number of players, if it's members of F2P, whether it's PvP, has CoinShare or not and which country it's based in
There are many more commands, but these were a few of them. Non-RS features like !google, !calc, !weather and the YouTube scripts are also useful. You can always find a RuneScript (which also often has 2 letters in brackets in front of it, because there are quite a few of them) in the channel #clans on SwiftIRC, if you want to try it out or chat with some of the regulars from TWR and the Clan Discussion.
Summer is coming up, so the Clan Chronicle might be taking a break... It depends on its trusted writers and how busy the clan world will be creating news. And of course, whether or not we'll receive a heap of guest articles. In the next issue, some of the previous guest writers will be presented as Chronicle authors, and deservedly so.