The Tip.It Times

Issue 199gp

Letters to the Editor #12

Written by and edited by Tip.It

Dear editor

In the article 'Shooting Fish in a Barrel (20-Jan-2008)' the author makes a valid point, but also a large (and to some people maybe even insulting) generalization. This is that any high level player who chooses to attack a low level creatures is in some way stealing from the low level “newbs”.

“I cant help it if I'm big”

A point that the author completely overlooked was that there are a group of people who have a legitimate reason for attacking low level monsters, and they are skill trainers. I myself belong to this bracket of people, and as such I can see the opposite side of the coin to the author on this matter. Most skill trainers do not really derive their fun from the game by repeatedly killing monsters, we enjoy raising our stats, watching as our levels rise towards those elusive skillcapes. However, a product of this is that our combat levels are somewhat high, both by intentional training to keep combat up with the other skills, and by unavoidable training – such as having to kill dragons in order to get hides for crafting. Therefore it is logical that skill raisers should go for the monster which allows them to get the most raw materials for the smallest effort. Unfortunately, due to the nature of summoning, it compounds the problem due to the absence of a skill based way to collect charms.

“Go away noob”

Another point I have about the article is that in my experience it is the lower level combat levels who tend to get a bit abusive about us stealing their kills, again voicing the opinion that higher levels have no business killing lower level monsters. This is particularly evident when I was killing chaos druids for their herbs, before the prayer pot price crashed. The low level players would run in order to hit the chaos druid before I got to it, and if I got their first there was quite often a chorus of “you noob, let me get some” – quite ignoring the fact that I normally leave about half of them out of fairness – as do the higher level players that I sometimes share with (although it gets trickier when sharing four druids between three people)

Now lets compare this to a scenario involving a high level player which has always stuck in my mind. Compared to low level players my combat level is quite high (94) but because that is spread out between the stats pretty much equally I am not actually very good at killing things. One afternoon in the heroes guild I come across a higher level player (116 or something) killing the blue dragon in the basement in pretty much ten seconds. I needed to gather blue dragon hide to craft some amour in which to train my ranged – and was about to switch worlds when to my surprise the guy said “share?” to which I gratefully said “tyvm”, and he patiently stood back while I hacked away for over a minute killing the blue dragon. And so it continued, him killing a dragon in ten seconds, followed by me hacking away. A perfect example of what the community of Runescape should be like.

In summery, it doesn’t really matter whether one is high level or low level – one should be able to train on whatever they want – just keep in mind that the people around you want to enjoy the game just as you do, and greed gets you nowhere. (well – it does, but people don’t like you very much once you have got there)


The Ice giants under white wolf mountain drop gold charms one in two/three kills, and are close to Catherby bank in order to fill up on food.

Dear Editor:

This letter is in response to “Shooting Fish in a Barrel.” I agree that there is a problem with training for experience points and levels. However, you cannot blame the players for how they train, and this problem exists far, far beyond combat skills.

Why is it more productive for experience to power train mining by hacking at and dropping truckloads of iron or granite than to mine rune or even addy ore? Why is it more efficient to fish salmon all day instead of sharks? Why cut willows when you can cut magic trees? In construction, why do I get better value for my gp with oak planks rather than mahogany? This problem can be found in every skill. Entire guides are based on these methods in the archives.

Typically, most skills have two methods of training; yielding high experience points or high rewards. You can fish sharks for more money, but slow experience. The choices seem balanced until you reach higher levels. Once you realize you need 600k xp to reach the next level you can opt for the six-month plan, or take the easy road and have it in a week. Now we have a paradox. Why are we gaining high levels if we find it is not worth training for high end goods? We may dream about how many sharks we will catch at 99 fishing, but why not catch them now? Most players seem to fall into this trap of training rather than playing. Ironically, whether we want to admit it or not it usually boils down to trying to keep up with the guy standing next to us doing the exact same thing. I don’t enjoy “plinking away” as you described in your article. It’s just that there is not much of a choice.

Most skills reflect this problem by two ways; the time it takes to gather the resource and the respawn rate of these items. The experience should reflect the work put in. In this aspect I agree with you.

However, you cannot fault the players for using these methods. It is a player’s right to play the game in the most efficient way the developers offered. If the player is playing the game in a way the developer did not intend than the developer has the right to change that. I don’t agree with your ideas of creating a low level dungeon. I’ve earned the right not to play in certain areas? Who do you think would own these dungeons? Not the new player looking to explore the game, but the pure. You might be able to put in a mini game similar to pest control, but I’m not invited because I’ve already earned my way to play normally? It sounds like punishment. I don’t believe there should be lower level monsters dropping vast quantities of charms specifically tailored to the “newbs.” You have already stated in your article that summoning is tied in with combat, so if your combat is too low....TRAIN COMBAT!!!!


I can see some benefits to the article that Qeltar wrote titled “Shooting Fish in a Barrel”. I know that other MMORPG’s have a similar combat style implemented as what he suggested. But, especially for F2P players, I don’t think that those ideas would work at all for RuneScape.

Perhaps for members, the article's ideas would be good. For non-members, however... what would we have to train on? There's only a handful of areas with monsters higher than level 30 or 40, and if Qeltar’s suggestions were instituted, those places would be full all the time.

At the same time, this thinking would probably be applied to all skills if it were implemented, not just combat. What would the miner do once his mining got to level 90 (F2P)? Mine the only 2 rune rocks? Mine the 10 or so addy rocks? The only effective way you can get anywhere with some skills is by continually working on the same things you worked on at level 40 when you're level 80. Would the only way to get decent crafting experience be by making diamond amulets once you get to a certain level?

Additionally, what about the “poor” higher level combat player? I’m sure there are players who fly fish and cannot or do not want to pay for feathers, so they kill chickens. Those players would be forced to pay for the feathers they currently get for free. When I was combat level 65 or so, I still killed zombies in the sewer under Draynor in order to train combat and get fishing bait at the same time. Under Qeltar’s plan, higher level players would have to pay for raw materials they could get for free if they choose.

Then there are those who still kill cows in order to get cowhides to sell, even if they are higher level than would normally be killing cows. I’m sure they are fed up enough with the changes already made to trade, and do not want to face their source of income being taken away.

There’s also the case of the player with high melee, low magic or ranged skills. I killed cows with arrows to train ranged when I was level 40 or so combat but only level 5 ranged. The great thing about RuneScape is that you aren’t forced into choosing one combat or skill type – you can be an archer and a sword fighter, a fisher and a miner. How would you place people with high melee skills but low ranged skill?

In any case, I hope it’s obvious that Qeltar’s article, although not a bad idea, still has some major flaws to overcome. Hopefully, if Jagex did implement something like that, they would greatly expand ALL areas of RuneScape, F2P and P2P, to include much more opportunity for higher level players to gain experience. But, Jagex management probably assumes that, if a combat level 120 player is killing chickens, they will get bored and stop. I know I would.

-- HMTourniquet

Did You Know...
...that you can change your Fremmnick name with a ring of charos(a)?

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Will you use Menaphos to train your skills?

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