Issue Number 13 - Published Winter, 2013
Interview With Jagex
Recently, I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to interview Mod Mike and some other Jagex Moderators about some clan issues, the Evolution of Combat, and the future of clans. Enjoy!
Arceus: Perhaps you could start by telling us a little about your experience playing RuneScape and running a clan/friends chat, both as a player and as a Jagex Staff member.
Mod Mike: I’ve been playing RuneScape since early 2005 (long before I joined Jagex) – in fact, I remember when friend chats were first introduced, I quickly registered the account “GRS Chat” which became the host of a friends chat for the RuneScape fansite I worked on at the time. Since then I’ve been in and out of various friend chats, most notably Axe Man Jack’s Slayer chat and a few JMod chats.
Arceus: Are you in a clan on a choob, and what do/did you look for in a clan?
Mod Mike: I actually run my own clan! I started it with a small group of in-game friends and it’s currently running a modest tier 3 citadel.
Arceus: Why do players with an admin rank automatically have so many powers that a general doesn't? Shouldn't an owner be able to assign permissions to each rank individually?
Mod Mike: This is more of a question for the content team, so without further ado, here’s the queen of clans herself: Mod Maz!
Mod Maz: Admin+ ranks can write to the clan’s data, whereas other ranks cannot - this is simply how the engine was written. Where we could, we allowed permissions to be assigned on a per rank basis. I have a few ideas to improve permissions a little further, but that's a long term change.
Arceus: I have not experienced it first hand, but other clans have lost hundreds of members overnight due to an admin kicking them. Can Jagex tell who kicked whom in such a situation? What would you say to such a clan?
Mod Mike: It’s unfortunate that this happens, however, this is why we allow clan leaders to issue and revoke certain privileges (such as adding and removing clanmates). Be careful with who you grant these powers to!
Arceus: Many clan members feel they have been shrugged off or told issues like these are not easy to fix. Does Jagex feel this is important and when will a fix be coming?
Mod Mike: We’re incredibly proud of the in-game clan system (and clan citadels) – however, that doesn’t mean we’re done with clans. We still have lots of exciting plans for clans (hey – I’m a poet!) in the future!
Arceus: One of the reasons for giving admin power is to access the clan avatar, because only admin ranks and higher can summon it. One buff yields extra experience, up to 6% extra on the same world. While this can create a substantial economic impact for players raking in millions of xp, it seems negligible for lower level players. Is there any chance of a higher bonus with a cap in the future?
Mod Maz: There are no plans to increase the extra experience buff percentage. As it stacks with many other effects, you can earn quite a bit with this extra boost, no matter what level you are.
Arceus: The avatar has several buffs in terms of combat, which many players feel are useless with the new Evolution of Combat mechanics. Will something be done to improve these?
Mod Mike: I’ll pass this one over to Mod Chris L who is far more qualified to speak about the changes brought into action by the Evolution of Combat!
Mod Chris L: We have identified the cross over between some mechanics and the Avatar's buffs. Whilst we can't guarantee anything in the next few updates, we can certainly look into what improvements or changes can be made to resolve it in the future.
Arceus: Speaking of EoC, some people in clans have quit or considered quitting. They cite factors like Clan Wars are not fun anymore. What would you say to them? What advice would you give to clan leaders who are not particularly opposed to the Evolution of Combat (or another major future update), but through not fault of their own are struggling to deal with an outflux of people?
Mod Mike: Honestly, the first thing I would encourage them to do would be to give it a chance! It’s a huge change and that understandably can makes things a little uncomfortable at first. Complete a few Slayer tasks, give the Combat Academy a whirl and I’m pretty confident that you’ll start to enjoy the new system as much as we do!
Arceus: With the Evolution of Combat update and the six months of various phases of beta testing, many aspects of combat were modified, most notably adding Momentum. One thing that was heavily criticized by many established clans, such as Wilderness Guardians, was the Wilderness Toggle. Why was it not removed or tweaked? What effect do you think the Wilderness Toggle has on clans?
Mod Chris L: Indeed, many things were changed due to player feedback and the introduction for the Wilderness Toggle was one of them. Whilst it was the solution we went with for release, it doesn't mean it’s the final solution. We have lots of plans to reinvigorate the Wilderness in the very near future and will be soon opening communication channels with the well established PK clans, such as the Wilderness Guardians, in the near future!
Arceus: Currently free players may not contribute at all to their clan's citadel, despite the fact that some, including myself, are very eager to do so. Could this possibly be changed to allow them to harvest citadel resources, perhaps at a reduced experience rate? Would they at least be able to count as a visitor, or is that impossible due to technical restrictions?
Mod Maz: The clan citadel is a members area to enable members experience to be gained from the plots - it also means that members can happily skill in such things as Fletching and Herblore from the bank present in the citadel. This means we cannot allow free players in the area as they would then be able to earn members experience not only from the plots but from any members objects that they may have in their bank/inventory from previous membership. To fix this we'd have to rewrite a considerably large portion of the game code to cope with free players in a members area (i.e. anything that wasn't tied to a particular members area).
Arceus: After the year of the clans (2011) ended, we haven't had many clan updates - what's planned for 2013? New Citadel tiers/plots/pretty things? Do you have plans for another Jagex Cup?
Mod Mike: We’re certainly not opposed to the idea of another Jagex Clan Cup – stay tuned!
Arceus: Some players seem to be dissatisfied with clan support. What do you think they could do better?
Mod Mike: Why not tell us what you’d like to see?
Arceus: If you could give one piece of advice to the clan community, whether small or large, what would you say to them?
Mod Mike: Be in a clan with people you enjoy playing with – friends! Having a fancy tier 7 citadel is all well and good but it’s no fun unless you’re playing with and enjoying the company of your clanmates. As for my own tip, if you’re just starting out – upgrade to tier 2 and build an avatar habitat in your first build tick – the XP boost provided by the avatar will be sure to have your friends wanting in on your new clan!
Arceus: Mod Mike, thank you very much for your time and this interview. Was there anything else you wanted to add?
Mod Mike: Thank you for the opportunity to talk to you guys! All I’ll say is that we’re certainly not done with clans and here in the community team, particularly with the help of Mod Drebin, we have some very exciting plans that all clan leaders will want to be a part of!
The Grey Area of Offsite Clan Features
Many clans offer ‘offsite’ features such as an IRC channel, forums or voice chat; but informing people about these in game can be hard without breaking any rules. Jagex have generally frowned upon methods of communication between players that they cannot control, but recently they seem to have relaxed the enforcement of these rules. There has not, however, been a statement from Jagex to the wider community explicitly condoning these features, and so they remain in a grey area of legality.
Friends chats and clan chats have been revolutionary for clans, but the use of IRC is still common as IRC has features the clan chat system does not provide, either out of design or due to limitations of the game engine. The official clan forums are buggy, clunky, and relatively uncustomizable. With lots of free forum hosts online, many clans prefer to use their services instead of the official ones provided. Then there’s voice chat, something that Jagex has never attempted to put into the game, although they were at one time thinking about it. Unfortunately, informing clan mates of such offsite features is prohibited by the rules…
...or is it?
The rules are clearly listed and explained on the official RuneScape Wiki, including the rule against 'Advertising other websites'.
“Players should refrain from actively advertising in any of our games or forums. This includes advertising any website or product. To protect all our players we have made the decision that no web addresses are allowed to be linked on our games.”
Ok but what about IRC channels?
“Any link has the potential to be misleading and cause a player to either compromise the security of their account, computer or their personal safety. For this reason players may not post links of this nature.
Hmm… and clan sites?
“Giving out the URL/link for a clan site could still pose a potential security risk for the player. This rule is in place to as a preventative action to ensure all 100% of our community is having a safe and fun experience in RuneScape.”
Well there’s no grey area here right? It’s extremely clear… I guess I’ll go and report myself. However on the Clan Leaders forum FAQs, we have this:
So telling people about these things are still against the rules, but there are ways of getting around them to avoid being reported? Is a JMod really encouraging me to break the rules?! Actually I think he’s just giving sensible advice. The rule is there is to stop people giving out links to websites that breach your security, or have inappropriate content. The rule wasn’t designed to stop people from giving out a link to their clan forums; it’s there because a blanket ban on links is easier than each link having to be individually vetted for suitability. Clan leaders are unlikely to be linking people to such websites, and the advice given is common sense, for the protection of all players involved. From this we observe Jagex recognizes the role offsite features play, and accepts the fact that clans are going to run and advertise their own offsite features. They (I believe rightly) choose to turn a blind eye in this instance.
Similar advice is given about voice chat, something which I have grown to love during my years in clans. I find it to be a much more natural method of communication, and it allows me to convey my mood and tone much better than text alone. All the best times I’ve had on this game involved talking with friends and clanmates over voice chat, and I think it allows people to get to know each other better than anything apart from actually talking face-to-face. The advantages these offsite features have for the fellowship of the clan are invaluable. There are also, however, disadvantages.
Recently some fansites have been hacked and (encrypted) password databases downloaded. Even if clan leaders have the best intentions for their site, unless the security is equally good, players and their accounts will be at risk. Jagex has no control over the content or security of these sites or chats, and views of what content is appropriate differ from person to person. It’s up to clan leaders to decide what is acceptable, and to remove content that isn’t. Using a clan website and chat doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to give up your personal information, indeed there are many who keep their ‘real’ lives separate from the game. That being said I have quite a few friends and clan members added on Facebook – it seemed like the most logical step after knowing and talking to these people for years. I am an adult, largely in control of my affairs and I don’t regret this decision, but there might be some who are younger, and for whom sharing their personal information could be a bad idea. Should anything bad happen, it would of course be terrible, and would reflect badly on Jagex.
Jagex has branched out into social media—for example: Twitter, Facebook and YouTube—and through the recognition of certain fansites, has acknowledged the great work they do. In general they have become more community focused (although there is a lot more still to be done), and have stated they want to cater to older players, with the relaxation of the chat filter being an example of this. So what about the future?
As anyone who plays with their private chat on can tell, most people who are going to advertise dodgy websites don’t really care that there’s a rule against it. They’re using accounts that they don’t mind losing, and so the rule only affects the legitimate players who have invested time (and recently, money) into their accounts. Despite the rule, people still get hacked by, for example, following a dodgy link they found on a YouTube giveaway.
I think the rule should be relaxed: let people with the chat filter on see the websites. Those who advertise dodgy websites will continue to do so, I’m sure, but they can instead be reported for being offensive, attempting to gain control of an account, or spamming etc. as appropriate. We would be able to tell clan members that these offsite features exist without worrying about the risk of being reported, and more clan members would be able to experience the benefits of these offsite features. Jagex could provide common sense advice; don’t follow a link from someone you don’t know, make sure your antivirus software is up to date, and don’t reuse passwords.
Clan sites are always going to exist, the sooner Jagex embraces them and uses them as a force for good, the better. Jagex cannot hope to provide the same level of functionality that forum and chat software do, and they shouldn’t try to do so, they should instead support the clans that choose to offer offsite features, and provide information and help to minimize any negative effects these offsite features could have. Most importantly, they should stop turning a blind eye to the offsite features that clans offer and act in what I believe to be the mutual best interests of their players and clans.
5 Tips for Surviving the Dead Zone
These days, many new clans seem to struggle to get off the ground or never make it. What separates these clans from the successful ones, and what should a new clan do to avoid this fate? Many of us have been in one of those clans that fall apart in a week. Whether it's competition from bigger clans or internal problems, many players struggle to manage clans. In order to have other players flock to your banner, you have to create diversified system where all members are having fun. Here are some tips that may help your clan progress past that one week dead zone.
Although no set of tips can guarantee success, I hope you will find this advice helpful in building and maintaining you clan. Happy clanning everyone!
Evolution of Combat's Impact on Clans
The Evolution of Combat was one of the largest updates that RuneScape has ever seen. It has completely changed combat, which inevitably completely changed many clans. I talked to two clan leaders about how their clans were affected by the Evolution of Combat, and I got their personal opinions on it. The first leader I interviewed was Parricidal, leader of Undead Alliance, which is a clan with around 150 people (at the time of this interview) that does many different activities, such as Castle Wars, Clan Wars, God Wars, and other combat-related activities. The second leader I interviewed was Redraven242, leader of L O D J, which is a community clan with 250 people and counting. L O D J has a large variety of players, from skillers to combatants. L O D J is also directly linked to the Dungeoneering friend chat, D_Squires, so many of L O D J's members frequently dungeoneer.
I asked similar questions to each leader during the interviews. I asked how their clan members liked the Evolution of Combat and if any had quit because of it. Parricidal, from Undead Alliance responded by saying, "The few that still play actively enjoy it, but nobody saw any flaws in the old system...Anybody that dislikes it rarely plays or just quit." I later found that "30 people [had] left and another 40 don't play much any more" due to the Evolution of Combat. Redraven242, leader of the more community-type clan, L O D J, said, "Overall, clan members have mixed views and many are neutral on the issue. Clan members that were strongly against [the] EOC have quit Runescape." In her interview, Redraven242 did say that her and others felt that "the bar is nice for skilling and dropping ore, fish, or logs, when raising skills up, or [when] thieving to heal." Parricidal said that "the few that still play actively enjoy it, but nobody saw any flaws in the old system" and that he "[doesn't] mind the EoC, but [he doesn't] love it compared to the old system."
The Evolution of Combat does has its pros and cons and the effects of this update will be seen for a long time in the clan community. The clan leaders I interviewed both felt that there were things that still needed to be worked in the EoC, but Redraven242 feels that for many of these things that needed improvement, "Jagex may look into [them] in the future...as they already updated the basic abilities and momentum." Other than some of the flaws that exist in the Evolution of Combat, lovers of this new system get to experience and entirely different combat system that brings RuneScape to par with many other games out there. The Evolution of Combat will also bring us new bosses, such as the new Kalphite King, which would not have been brought to us if it was not for this incredible update.
The Evolution of Clans in RuneScape
Clans have played a major part in RuneScape for the entire duration of its existence. Ever since the days of the 2D avatars in RuneScape Classic, people have grouped together to form tight-knit communities of adventurers, pures, and other players.
When I first started playing RuneScape back in 2005, my brother had a clan with 30 members. If memory serves me correctly, the clan was a social clan that had been well known on a few different fan-sites. Even though the clan had requirements that I couldn’t meet for some time, I was allowed to join. This was in 2005, when Jagex had just started to recognize clans as a very fun and very important part of the game. A lot of effort has been put in throughout the years to make clans a very important part of the game.
Now, clans have more administration tools, mini-games, and features than ever before. We have the Clan Citadels, clan wars, clan websites, clan chats, and numerous other features to ensure that we get the real MMORPG experience from RuneScape.
In 2005, before Jagex added all of these features, it wasn’t uncommon for a large clan to completely and suddenly fall apart. Members often quit the game, leadership left the clan, real world issues prevented the clan leaders from fulfilling their duties, and members often dropped off the face of the Earth. Reasons for this often varied.
Most of these changes have been well received by the RuneScape community. One of the bigger updates for clans was the introduction of the Clan Chat (which has switched names with the friends chat in 2011). When that update was released, I recall all of my friends frantically messaging me, telling me to come into their chat. The clan that I was in at the time had made full use of the chat and its features, which was a welcomed addition to the game. Previously, we would have to private message the members of the clan individually telling them to “meet at x location” or “log-in to the TeamSpeak server”.
With the clan camp and citadel update back in 2011, clans received a jolting reminder that Jagex hasn’t forgotten about them. At that time, Clans had an official way of founding a clan and getting members. Clans suddenly had a lot more organization and personalization with the addition of the clan capes, clan vexillum’s, clan forums, and clan websites. Clans were no longer an unofficial aspect of RuneScape, they became an important and fun part of life in Gielinor.
Clan-ck to the Future
As most will know the "Year of the Clans" has since passed as we make our way to different content. 2013 has a different focus, but will there be significant changes in the future?
Firstly the various clanning communities have received many tools in the past to aid with their desires. These however came in a big clump with the exception of fealty and avatars. So what can we expect for the future? There have been many suggestions across a wide range of RS-related boards. The one thing that I've found to be the biggest clanning concern: kicking. Yes, putting that boot that appears from the ceiling in some cartoons at the ready. The jump from General to Admin in a clan can have nasty effects when people turn rogue...
Looking toward the future will there be any extra support? We (or at least, I) have yet to see a mention of a clanning feature being broadcast in various Q&A sessions. The solution? Wait until the next session and bombard that twitter feed!
In fairness though we've had our year, and we've been given many features that we didn't have before.
There are no visible plans for clan-related updates for within the near future, however there have been some great suggestions made all-round which, one day, may be added into the game. Again, the jump from General to Admin; will there be newer ranks or more-varied permissions? Time will tell. A wide range of people have reported that their clan was destroyed within minutes, and this is incredibly difficult to avoid.
On a lighter note though clans will soon be able to take part in various activities depending on their style. PVP clans can slaughter those venturing to find the Wilderness Warbands; community clans can take part in future world-events, and more. It's easier than you think to find something for you and the clan to do. With the clan suggestions that have been made right across the internet I'm sure that we'll see some improvements/upgrades this year or next. The clan forums were a sneak-peak of what the regular RS Boards were expected to be and since then there has been more work; the clan forums could see updates perhaps. Who knows?
It's important to remember that you paint the picture for your clan's future. It's up to what you make of it. Ideas become suggestions, and only then can we really go clan-ck to the future.
—Marty McF... I mean, IceyNut.
If It Ain't Fixed
NOTE: This article was written prior to the patch limiting the number of kicks for administrative ranks. The author wishes to express their gratitude to Mod Maz and others for making this change.
While I would be one of the first to admit that RuneScapers are far from the top rank in patience, there are some vital changes that the clan community desperately needs. Naturally, one might think I exaggerate. Does the prospect of most of your clan members (perhaps including yourself) disappearing overnight sound urgent enough? What about potentially losing a hard-earned citadel tier due to it? Issues like this are a nightmare for any clan. What you may not know is that these issues, alongside less dramatic ones, continue to happen on a regular basis.
To make sure we are all on the same page, I'll explain a bit about clan permissions. Now I stress here I am discussing clans, NOT friends chats, which operate on a completely different system. In terms of settings, a clan is essentially a list of people, with one designated as 'owner' who can sets 'ranks' for each other person in the clan. From there, different permissions can be assigned by rank. Effectively, this is a shortcut to separate people into groups, and quickly set what each group can and cannot do.
Now, what kind of things would an owner want to let one group of people do? If you've been around chatrooms online at all, or even talk in public chat in a reasonably dense area in RuneScape for a decent length of time, you know that people can be, to put it quite bluntly, brats sometimes. Of course, for most of us, there is no way to remove them and continue chatting with others. Now, you can see that as a clan, the problems and motivations are only magnified. People try to pop in or get invited and aggravate people (don't ask me why-that's for next time!). So the only solution is to allocate people as a sort of chat police who can remove users by kicking them.
Now, if it were up to you, what kind of kicking would you make possible? Should there be a temporary kick, so that people can rejoin the chat later once they have calmed down? Perhaps for a day, or a few hours, or even for one hour? As it stands now, there is nothing of the sort, leaving two options: do nothing or kick them permanently and irreversibly from the clan. Of course they can be invited at a later time, but that posed other problems which will be discussed later.
So one of these players can expel someone from the clan. There isn't any big issue with this, right? After all, surely the most they can kick is a couple of people. Right? Wrong-they can kick literally everyone with a lower rank than them. Not two people, or ten people, but potentially everyone (albeit, slowly) below them, even up to hundreds of people! There is no way to limit it either-it's all or nothing. In fact, everyone with a rank of admin or higher can automatically do this and it cannot be changed.
For a small clan of ten or twenty people, this might be more of amusement than an actual issue. Just reinvite a few people, set ranks again, and it's as good as new.
Now think of it from a large clan's perspective.
Think of explaining to hundreds of people why they were kicked. Think of trying to run around and track down more than enough people to fill your friends list. Think of names you may not remember and may simply never contact you. Think of trying to remember everyone's rank or even entering hundreds of ranks from a spreadsheet.
Even if you invite people back, for a week they cannot help in the citadel, so depending on when it occurs, it can put a huge strain on the citadel for that week, causing failure to meet the number of visitors or the amount of resources.
Then, once that's settled, there's the question of who did it. Presumably, you would not want them to have to ability to repeat it. Recall it could have been any of the people with the rank required to kick. Is there any way to tell who? Nope-there's no log of who did what. In fact, not even Jagex can see who it was. A decision has to be made on mostly soft evidence.
So to summarize, most of a clan can be kicked and separated from each other overnight, resulting in a citadel disaster and a leadership crisis, with no hardcore evidence to solve it.
If that doesn't spell nightmare, I don't know what does!
I've seen this scenario play out a few times over the forums, from people initially hoping for a Jagex resolution to slowly rebuilding what they can of it. The most common counterargument to revising the kicking procedure is something along the lines of "choose admins more carefully." There are a couple reasons that this falls short.
It takes some time to have confidence in someone online, and really make a "careful" choice. You can't really tell after two weeks. Coupled with that fact that searching for loyal players on RuneScape is like playing Scrabble with no vowels, it becomes difficult to find any decent number of good candidates.
But no matter—it's not like any large number of admins are needed for any sort of content, are they? By now it should not surprise you when I say "Yes, actually they are."
The crowning achievement in terms of clan updates last year was the Clan Avatar project. I won't cover the details here, but the Clan Avatar allows your clan to gain one of a selection of useful bonuses if you are on the same world and close to it. To take out the avatar, you need permission assigned to you. And this permission requires—you guessed it—an admin rank.
To put this in basic logic: a player can be given permission to use the avatar if and only if the said player is also given permission to kick other clanmates and potentially most of the clan.
Letting a player summon the clan avatar and entrusting them not to abuse kick power are two entirely different issues that are now entangled.
Now, why do we have this set-up in the first place? It's due to the fact that the ability to kick or summon the avatar is tied to writing clan data, and the way the system is set up, only certain ranks can write that data. Hence a lower rank, like a General, cannot write to it, which would be necessary to receive the avatar, for the purpose of the game keeping track of it.
Yet, we've been asking for and waiting on a change in this system for a while now, even before the avatar issue. In April we'll be coming up on two years since the clan system was added.
I understand that these changes aren't easy to implement, but I hope that I've also shown you why they are important and worth some effort. I hope before long we will see an overhaul of the permissions in general, because if there is one thing about clans that needs fixing, it is this.
Arceus - Author and Editor
Hello, Arceus here. I first started a 'clan' with a few friends when they were officially known as friends chats. As time went on, we've met more people and made more friends. And aside from beating the living daylight out of each other occasionally in Clan Wars, we all hit off great!
feathery_one - Author and Editor
Hey, I'm feathery one, I have a completionist cape, I've been playing this game since 2006, and I've been involved with clans since 2008. Last summer I helped to start "Serenity Isle", a community/events clan, where I am the deputy leader. In the real-life-scape I live in south London, I do quite a bit of singing in choirs and ensembles, and I'm in the last year of a maths degree. I have a love of cats, puns and reading (possibly in that order).
hasama5 - Author
Sup everyone, the name's Hasama5. I've been an f2p runescaper for 5 years, and i don't plan on changing anytime soon! Im part of a clan called United Within, which I joined upon request from one of my friends. I also enjoy ice cream and long walks on the beach.
xGRIN - Author
I'm xGRIN and although I have goals of eventually becoming maxed, I'm being lazy and lobbying with about 2300 total at the moment. I am the owner of one clan chat, 99s, and I hope to open another one soon called "90s", which will just be a lower-leveled version of 99s. I also am an administrator in two friend chats, UnitedClans, a friends chat that unites clans and allows for shared ideas, events, and community, and UnitedSC, a non-combat Stealing Creation FC that will be fully opened later this month. For my most recent IRL major event, I just recently moved to San Francisco, California from Atlanta, Georgia and I'm loving it!
IceyNut - Author
IceyNut hereeeeeeeee! I'm a regular in the Penguin Whisperers as well as being a main contributor to A&CS forums. I've been playing RuneScape for... I can't remember how long, lol. I'm part of a clan called "Friendship" which was built upon the Achievement Diary system (now Achievement & Challenge System (A&CS)). Anyone who brings me a KrispyKreme doughnut will be my friend for life!
RevenantCrow - Author
Hi guys. My name is RevenantCrow(not Mod Crow, I just took his epic name) and I'm addicted to runescape a 7 year RuneScape veteran. After a 3 year break from the game, I returned to the wonderful world of RuneScape to find new updates waiting for me. I'm in a very large 500 member social clan and enjoy every bit about it.
Kaida23 - Editor
Kaida23 herds cats in his spare time, an obscure skill which has served him well in his time as an editor on the Editorial Panel. A year and half veteran of the EP, he brings skill and experience which will surely help things run smoothly behind the scenes.
Write for the Chronicle
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